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Day One
Mar 16, 2011 20:53:11 GMT -8
Post by Pleonast on Mar 16, 2011 20:53:11 GMT -8
Collude as you wish.
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 3:40:38 GMT -8
Post by mutineer1 on Mar 17, 2011 3:40:38 GMT -8
I have arrived.
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 6:46:25 GMT -8
Post by mutineer3 on Mar 17, 2011 6:46:25 GMT -8
TexCat here. This is exciting. I haven't been scum in a very long time. Of course, bad news, is that I usually suck as scum.
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 11:02:42 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 17, 2011 11:02:42 GMT -8
glowacks here.
The only time I was a werewolf in a face-to-face game, people figured out I was scum by asking me directly, because I'm a terrible liar like that. Hopefully it won't be as ridiculously easy in text.
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 12:09:41 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 17, 2011 12:09:41 GMT -8
For reference/clarity:
01. Hal Briston - Captain 02. fluiddruid - Executive Officer 03. TexCat - Chief of Security - Commissar 04. peekercpa - Head of Engineering 05. Mahaloth - Ship's Doctor 06. Inner Stickler 07. Red Skeezix - Cracker 08. glowacks - Ringleader 09. Natlaw 10. Normal Phase 11. fubbleskag 12. Crackrat - Hackrat 13. Stanislaus 14. Drain Bead 15. Idle Thoughts 16. NAF1138
I have absolutely no idea how to strategize in general as scum, having thought about this game much more as town. I'm guessing that we want to spread our votes around a little trying not to always back the same people to lynch, sometimes vote for each other, try to not say anything really idiotic to protect each other, and in general just try to act exactly like a town member. For me personally it's hard not having been town on a forum mafia game before, but at least people have no idea what to expect from me.
I've been trying to get more thoughts together, but this set up makes things really hard to wrap one's mind around. I keep typing things and realizing that I'm not really saying anything interesting. I'll try to condense some ideas I have about the various officer positions and hidden power roles in some later posts.
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 12:43:49 GMT -8
Post by mutineer3 on Mar 17, 2011 12:43:49 GMT -8
It would be nice if we could get you investigated by the doctor as soon as possible, glowacks. Any ideas on how to convince Mahaloth to investigate you?
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 13:28:06 GMT -8
Post by mutineer1 on Mar 17, 2011 13:28:06 GMT -8
There's a couple of pitfalls which i've seen new guys make that you should avoid:
1. Don't try to get people lynched. People will get lynched. Look for behavior that is justifiably scummy and make cases, but don't get too caught up in a single strategy.
2. Don't make X and Y cases. IE Avoid saying things like I think X and Y are both really scummy, but I'm gonna vote for X or even worse Z. We have multivotes that are mandatory, so just make cases and ask questions.
3. Don't try to save another scum player. If you think one of us is going down then they are (eventually) and you will come out looking worse for it.
4. Have fun!
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 13:36:17 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 17, 2011 13:36:17 GMT -8
In general it looks like we will be treading a line between exposing ourselves to the information officers, the engineer especially, and making it obvious when we're in one of those positions. It makes sense to kill the engineer every night to be sure that he doesn't investigate one of the right people in order to see the night kill, but we'll end up in the hot seat ourselves soon enough. We'll have to see where the discussion goes on that, because it's going to be a continuing WIFOM situation.
If I (the Ringleader) get the engineer position, it would be interesting to use it to report on the night kill given that I'd show as clean in an investigation. It would require sacrificing someone and would have to be done in a non-obvious way. We'd basically have to have a situation where the engineer would be watching over one of two confirmed townies, then "risk" it and go after one of them with one of our one-shot power folks who already used their ability - someone that's already under suspicion most likely. That the town catches the killer isn't a huge surprise, and gives me a huge amount of town cred for seeing and reporting it. The question will be if anyone manages to suspect such a ploy.
The doctor's report is rather interesting. Consider our options:
1) Confirm a townie. What the townies are expecting to see in general, and builds slight town cred on the investigator if the investigatee ends up flipping and draws suspicion on the the investigatee should the investigator flip.
2) Label anyone as scum when a mislynch wins it for us. Regardless of the actual alignment of the guy we report on, it creates an interesting WIFOM situation that calls into question the doctor's loyalty more than the loyalty of the invesigatee. If this situation comes up, it will be something to discuss further.
3) Label anyone as scum when a mislynch doesn't win it. Maybe sacrifice someone to build town cred for the investigator?
4) Falsely confirm one our own as town. While this is an interesting situation if the investigator flips first, if the person investigated ends up flipping first instead we've got another of us effectively confirmed. This seems quite risky as any suspicion about the investigator might get redirected to the scum investigated; for this reason we should consider doing #1 more often.
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 13:45:12 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 17, 2011 13:45:12 GMT -8
It would be nice if we could get you investigated by the doctor as soon as possible, glowacks. Any ideas on how to convince Mahaloth to investigate you? Whatever it is, it needs to be non-obvious. Coolly blending in with the rest of the town and not clearly being on the side of a scum who flips is the best strategy regardless.
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Day One
Mar 17, 2011 17:20:36 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 17, 2011 17:20:36 GMT -8
I've thought about starting some initial discussion regarding engineers that manage to live through the night, but I'm worried that I'd do too much of the Town's work for them. Additionally, my impression is that it's best for the town if they don't talk about it until it happens, so I'm worried it will practically give me away.
I really feel like I should be making some sort of analytical post on the first day since I personally am a very analytical person; although I have no clue what sort of board persona I have, I'd think I would more likely than not come across as someone interested in exploring the mechanics of the game given my pre-role comments and feel an absence of such comments would be telling. Thus I request a bit of feedback so I don't botch the job entirely.
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Day One
Mar 18, 2011 11:01:18 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 18, 2011 11:01:18 GMT -8
I may have a significant disadvantage of wanting every post I make to be perfect. I take such a long time to write my posts that I've already written around 4 posts with various contents before deleting them after the thread moved on preview. I keep feeling as though I need to say something, but everything I come up with sounds a bit scummy once the thread moves a bit.
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Day One
Mar 18, 2011 11:51:29 GMT -8
Post by mutineer3 on Mar 18, 2011 11:51:29 GMT -8
I am a bit concerned about all of these elaborate schemes for the doc and engineer to confirm themselves and everyone else. As our analytical expert, glowacks, I hope you are following along and figuring out how to break it up.
Has crackrat shown up yet, or is he still AWOL?
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Day One
Mar 18, 2011 12:28:04 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 18, 2011 12:28:04 GMT -8
I'm not overly concerned about people using their investigations to circularly investigate each other; they need to find scum, and do it fairly fast. If we keep aiming at the low ranks and they keeping investigating the higher ranks we'll just never get found assuming our voting patterns and such don't betray us.
I'm definitely worried about Crackrat's absence; his power is of great importance and the fact that the town has no idea if the hacker is town or not means they have no good way of determining the reason behind it. Even better is if I'm able to come up with a good reason why I hacked it the way I did. I absolutely cannot be counter-claimed or investigated to be found lying. That we get a kill and a computer glitch the same night will allow for substantial switcheroos - and if we end up with the XO at the same time we'll be able to do quite a lot. It will depend on crafting a believable cover story, which will depend on how exactly the Town tries to carry out its plan.
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Day One
Mar 18, 2011 15:08:19 GMT -8
Post by mutineer1 on Mar 18, 2011 15:08:19 GMT -8
The circular logic is easy to break up. we can adjust the following day's roster by killing above the 3,4,5 slots.
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Day One
Mar 18, 2011 22:09:46 GMT -8
Post by mutineer2 on Mar 18, 2011 22:09:46 GMT -8
I'm here. I've been traveling, and didn't have PMs enabled. I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about how to use my ability without tipping my hand or being an obvious attempt to throw doubt on a confirmed townie, but I welcome suggestions and such.
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Day One
Mar 19, 2011 6:44:36 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 19, 2011 6:44:36 GMT -8
Given that the hacker ability is a one-shot thing, we need to use it when it accomplishes something very important in terms of a long-term strategy. I've been thinking of various ways we can do that, but what exactly to do will depend heavily on how they decide to start using the doctor.
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Day One
Mar 19, 2011 10:58:24 GMT -8
Post by mutineer3 on Mar 19, 2011 10:58:24 GMT -8
Do you think the loyalists have any additional roles? We have all of the roles aside from Mates. I wonder what the chance of duplicates is.
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Day One
Mar 19, 2011 13:06:23 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 19, 2011 13:06:23 GMT -8
I used to see a lot of town bias in the game, but I've realized that the forced multi-vote may actively hinder their efforts. Thus while I wasn't surprised to see the scum with a bunch of power roles, I wouldn't be surprised if there's power roles on the town side as well. I can definitely see the town having a commissar given how the game went last time; the town really needs a power to take out known scum at night to save the town from having to make an obvious lynch. The problem for the town is that they're likely to want to brig people who might be scum and thus make their own commissar useless.
On the voting front, we certainly need to make sure to keep our votes as randomly correlated as possible. While lots of correlation is definitely bad, we should strive not for no correlation, but for similar correlation as the rest of the town's votes. Just how correlated they are will be something to take note of, but given how many votes are necessary for a lynch we can expect a significant amount.
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Day One
Mar 21, 2011 13:38:16 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 21, 2011 13:38:16 GMT -8
I'm quite surprised there's been no discussion of what happens when the engineer stays alive despite it figuring heavily in the ways they have to expose us as the game goes on. It is likely a good thing for the town to keep mum on it for now and thus I'm loathe to bring it up myself, but I wonder just how much anyone's thought about it. Any ideas on how often we kill the engineer? Clearly we have to leave him alive some of the time, but the sample size available for analysis will be quite small and from my perspective any engineer left alive after the first one is killed will be suspect. That potential suspicion should be something of a driving force in our plans as we're very likely to be exposed by an engineer as numbers dwindle. If we can create a situation where we can keep ourselves out of the engineer position and kill him every night we will be very difficult to find. Doing so without drawing suspicion will be difficult despite our potential rank shenanigans; we need to keep our intent completely obfuscated. I guess we just have to wait and see where the town discussion goes.
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Day One
Mar 21, 2011 13:56:47 GMT -8
Post by mutineer1 on Mar 21, 2011 13:56:47 GMT -8
Pre mass claim: the engineer has no onus to report his results immediately, so it would be good for us to be in that spot earlier, and worse later. Also, once things start to shake out the plotters will come out and they'll want to give orders to power roles to try to get a confirmed v non confirmed game rolling.
Right now I'm not seeing any major holes in our play.
Also: WTF is town being so quiet? There is a tendency to lynch the loud around here, and if we're the only ones talking then we are going to find some ropes pdq.
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Day One
Mar 21, 2011 18:30:10 GMT -8
Post by mutineer3 on Mar 21, 2011 18:30:10 GMT -8
I don't understand killing the engineer. I must be missing something? Won't the new engineer get the results if the old engineer is dead?
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Day One
Mar 22, 2011 18:47:24 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 22, 2011 18:47:24 GMT -8
I asked Pleo about that specifically. He said that the same engineer receives the results, not whoever becomes engineer. The doctor role is different. I have confirmed via PM that if we kill the engineer he will receive the results of his scan the same time he dies and thus be unable to share them; I even confirmed that the dead are not allowed to communicate just in case.
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Day One
Mar 22, 2011 20:40:23 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 22, 2011 20:40:23 GMT -8
I've seen a whole new perspective of this game genre now that I see who they're voting for while knowing who's actually scum. It really widens my eyes to see people going after each other over the smallest things while the scum non-chalantly watch them duke it out.
What the hell is with the claiming? Mate is at least reasonable, but the others make absolutely no sense as they in no way imply loyalty.
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Day One
Mar 23, 2011 8:35:14 GMT -8
Post by mutineer2 on Mar 23, 2011 8:35:14 GMT -8
Yeah, the early claims of power with undetermined loyalty surprised me too.
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Day One
Mar 23, 2011 18:48:03 GMT -8
Post by mutineer4 on Mar 23, 2011 18:48:03 GMT -8
If Tex and Crackrat fill out their votes we'll have enough on Idle. If Crackrat votes for Hal he'll be in the airlock instead, but that would mean that we all voted for him. There's a couple loose votes on peeker that if filled out, either of you adding him would get him sent up. From a townie's perspective I'd find Idle most reasonable to lynch given his persistent claim that amounts to nothing. From our perspective, having Idle flip (assuming he's telling the truth) would give slightly more traction to anyone other than me claiming Loyal with their power. I'll obviously be just as strenuously opposed to such an argument in public, but it might work on enough people. Having peeker flip town while engineer would cast a lot of suspicion on everyone that put a vote in his direction as I personally am not seeing the case for him (hence why I'm not voting for him).
As to who I'm looking at for our night kill, Inner Stickler's claim makes him a potential engineer target, as are any of the officers. If Mahaloth is demoted I would find him to be a worthwhile target. Otherwise, I suggest Natlaw or Normal Phase as being talkative, not having much if any suspicion on them, and being almost certainly unwatched. I would suggest Crackrat carries it out as he's also almost certainly not going to be watched.
Overall I think having the top ranks not change at all would be beneficial for us, allowing the doctor to be cross-checked only if the XO uses the demote ability or someone gets brigged - and it looks like people are being very hesitant to use their powers or even discuss the powers in general.
eta: and while I was writing that Crackrat finished his votes. Hmmmmm
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