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Post by Pleonast on Feb 13, 2009 21:47:30 GMT -8
This thread is for spoiled commentary...
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 19, 2009 8:59:50 GMT -8
The Evil side is in a bind with the Half-Elf Cleric sachertorte. He has an even chance of discerning the Good/Evil alignment of any character. And, he is resistant to Cursing, an even chance of resisting by default, and improved to a low chance of dying if he uses his one-time power.
I think the best course of action for Evil this Turn is to forgo Cursing, and have Chucara claim to have been Cursed. After all, sach has some votes, so Chu would be the obvious target if both were Good. Chu will of course resist the Curse, and be somewhat confirmed. Pressure will increase on sach, maybe.
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Post by hoopyfrood on Feb 19, 2009 12:36:32 GMT -8
Interesting idea.
I also find it interesting that sachertorte is using a "scum wouldn't do that" argument to think that Sinjin is Town.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 19, 2009 15:42:54 GMT -8
I'm amused that three of the four Evil have votes already.
But it looks like it'll be lynch the lurker for Turn One. I'm a little surprised. They'll get no information from the dead lurkers, since they haven't participated. I wonder if they'll lynch only one, or do two.
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Post by hoopyfrood on Feb 20, 2009 5:41:00 GMT -8
From the scum board:
Heh, heh.
And I didn't even investigate her.
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Post by hoopyfrood on Feb 20, 2009 11:06:39 GMT -8
Never mind. Read night actions before reading thread so my comment doesn't apply.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 24, 2009 12:53:16 GMT -8
Well, that sucks. I was right about both Chucara and sinjin, and it's my arguments against them that sachertorte used to get me lynched.
I will never stop reminding sachertorte about this. We will be playing Mafia in 2025, and he will tell me my logic is bad, and I will remind him of this game.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 24, 2009 12:58:31 GMT -8
Even though Evil is doing well at the moment, due to the three mislynches, they aren't playing especially great. Good definitely has shot at winning this.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 24, 2009 14:38:12 GMT -8
Perfect information slip underlined: Only Evil know when Good is at lynch or lose.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Feb 24, 2009 14:45:45 GMT -8
One of these days I'll post analysis that turns out to be correct. Maybe. Probably not.
Reason for my "oh shit I'm gonna get NK'd by scum" to "I don't know what I'd get NK'd by scum" switch is probably known to Pleo - I hugely misinterpreted by abilities and thought that Displacement + Stacked Item/magic ability would make it incredibly difficult to Curse me except when I had to use Accept Item. That's why, at the time, I thought I was a goner that Turn - because it would be folly for them to try with my defenses up.
Naturally I stupidly decided to confirm this AFTER I posted instead of before. I figured it would perhaps work as a bluff if I didn't mention how wrong I was if the scum turned out to be as stupid as I was. In any case, I didn't see much benefit to pointing it out, would have had to if I lived long enough to have to answer sach's questioning me on it.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 25, 2009 7:55:53 GMT -8
PM from sachertorte
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 25, 2009 8:58:59 GMT -8
- The information imbalance is enhanced by the large number of items. Scum know what items they have and can best exploit their use in private.This is no different than the typical closed Mafia game where powers are unknown. In this case, the possible powers are known, have limited number of uses, and have a chance to fail. The powers are also transferable, which mitigates the advantage to either side. - Town do not know what exists or who has what or who is Evil, so all actions, results and information is "tainted" by "who is Evil?" uncertainty and the existence possibilities of all the items. Scum do not have this concern as they are not information deprived.I would call that the essence of Mafia and unavoidable. - The numbers imbalance is shifted in favor of Scum. Historically a game with 16 players would have 4 Scum. In this game there were only 15 players and and expected value of 4 scum. (When I initially signed up, I saw that there were an unusually large number of scum in proportion to the Town. I had assumed that this was because Town had many powers [like in Conspiracy]. That assumption was wrong).This is a concern for me too. I ended up with the distribution I did because the Evil side is not unified. The Lawful/Chaotic split forces the side who's ahead to be cautious. - Anti-Town passive powers. I really feel bad for Boozihol, tdpatriots, and MHaye (and a few others). pro-Town players want to be investigated by a pro-Town investigator. Their so-called "powers" prevented this from happening.I agree I need to look at the pro-Town vs anti-Town distribution of powers. As for classes that are difficult to investigate/confirm, they are basically Millers with the slight advantage of everyone knowing they can't be confirmed. Gameplay, as I've stated before is crippled by the large number of items. Just last night I remembered the possible existence of the Staff of Command, which then required thinking about the ramifications of such an event. Then I decided I don't care any more. Or rather I need to force myself to not care anymore because it is a game and I shouldn't be spending so much of my time thinking about minutiae of a game. It's just too much.I think the Good side has played poorly and/or I over-estimated the degree to which Good characters would work together. The watch action available to every character puts a huge limit on what Evil characters can get away with. Evil has to consider "what's my story if someone watched me?", but Good has not used the power much at all. Also, the short Turns and lack of Nights are a problem. We often state, and I agree with, the notion that longer games favor the Town. Three days for a Turn with such a complex ruleset seems to be a detriment to the Town. Lack of Night is problematic for several reasons. One, I like having a break. Being able to put the game away for a few days I see now is important to me. This constant barrage of being close to the end of the Day is wearying.The Night as a break is something I hadn't considered. I set this game to use uniform time periods because it fit the setting. I see now that the pacing is too fast, though. I think one-week Turns will be better in the future. As for the end-Turn rush that happens, I blame the players collectively for that. Well, the fast pacing is a factor, but with votes being permanent until unvoted, there's absolutely no pro-Town reason for the rush at the end. All in all it was an interesting and refreshing ruleset, but I think the weaknesses in the game need to be addressed. Specifically, the complexity of the game needs to be toned down. I enjoy puzzles and complexity, yet I found the situation to be too much.I'll have to think more about this. I may simply reduce the effectiveness of magic items. The major detriment to the current game was zuma and Blaster Master. I stand by my assessment that getting rid of the two of them was the correct move. The result was bad for Town, but the move was correct. Unfortunately, the outcome of the game will likely be determined by the chance alignment of the players who didn't show up. It's too bad. I really hate what zuma has done to the last few games he's been in.Players who don't play are always a problem to game balance and player enjoyment. I think it was unwise to lynch them so quickly, but I think lynching was the correct move.
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Post by Pleonast on Feb 25, 2009 9:17:51 GMT -8
Oh, just wanted to add, that I really appreciate feedback like what sach gave. I might not agree with some of it, but it gives me some perspective.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Feb 28, 2009 6:43:22 GMT -8
Why in the holy name of hell is sinjin lying about what Boozy did on Turn One? Do the Scum want to lose? Sinjin is the only one of the remaining Scum who isn't dead in the water, and now she's basically fucked, too, because Boozy is going to say, "sinjin is a liar," and after they've finished off Darth and Chucara they'll co-lynch sinjin and Boozy, thus ending the game.
Terrible, terrible play by the Scum here, and I don't understand it at all. It's like they can't just sit back and let the game unfold, taking advantage where they find it; they keep overplaying their hand, and in a game where multiple lynches are possible, especially, that's a really bad idea.
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 2, 2009 8:03:24 GMT -8
This came about because Boozy took some artistic license with his description of his attempted action on Turn One. That's a lot to hang a team's hopes on.
I think this game shows that multi-lynches are just too unbalancing. And the power of forcing a tie puts a strong emphasis on end-of-the-Turn participation. That's something I want to discourage. Turns (or Days) should end with everyone having already decided what should be done and just waiting out the clock. Of course, the Town will always procrastinate, but mechanics that encourage clock-management should not be there.
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