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Post by Pleonast on Mar 5, 2013 11:25:39 GMT -8
This may be the first ever case of town busing town. ;D
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Post by lauriern on Mar 5, 2013 13:35:16 GMT -8
It's mostly patricia's fault. Her mistake in the Cardinal Sin matter has given Town a big head and they're sort of cocky. They think the scum don't have much information, but in reality scum have perfect information. They know everything, even more than they would in a usual game. It's also partly that people are misinterpreting the warning. They think "oh, if I don't mention my Cardinal Sin by name I'm okay" and then go and blab their powers, thinking that the powers won't give anything away. That's why I was specifically vague when asked about mine. At least wombat is smart enough to try and not go down that road (even though the scum have already figured out her Sin). If I were still playing, I'd definitely be chastising all the players with how loose they're being about their Cardinal Sin powers. I don't think I ever even said whether I had a CS for that reason. I even chastised all the CS discussion/revealing twice (N1 & N2, I believe), but most people didn't listen - Oh well.....
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Post by lauriern on Mar 5, 2013 13:36:03 GMT -8
Good Holy Lord, Idle .........
If I'm wrapping my head around the Devil Wincons correctly, Idle's plan has:
wincon 1 - no effect
wincon 2 - helps Devils
wincon 3 - no effect
Pleo, is this right??
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Post by polluxoil on Mar 5, 2013 15:36:19 GMT -8
Actually, Idle's gambit pretty much seals off the Devils from obtaining wincon 3 as long as they don't guess Idle's Sin before he gets out of Purgatory. Since there are 21 non-Devils, having 8 players in Heaven is the threshold, and since Bill can't sin and has no Cardinal Sin, if texcat and Idle get to Heaven it's cinched that the Devils can't claim two-thirds of all the souls.
They can still win with wincon 1 or 2, though, as both of them can still be obtained even with Idle's move.
Overall, Idle's making a mistake because he thinks he's figured out the game and has perfect information. He doesn't know that a) not voting for a lynched Devil makes you sin so he has sin right now, b) the Devils have perfect information and still have multiple ways of winning even with souls in Heaven, c) the Town was close to lynching a Devil before he made his gambit and now that they're distracted it's likely all the remaining Devils can slip back under the radar. On top of that, it's especially bad because Colby had CatinaSuit in his sights last Night, but he'll likely waste his kill tonight on Idle instead.
Idle's mistake was he thought his information of "Christians that die without sin will go directly to Heaven (this is good)." was more important than "a. Lynching or killing Devils will always help your team." It's not, and I argued against that while I was still alive. Too bad nobody listened to me.
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Post by lauriern on Mar 6, 2013 6:13:12 GMT -8
Ah! ty
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Post by lauriern on Mar 6, 2013 6:16:15 GMT -8
I think the issue is that since Christians do not know what their wincon is, they're focusing on figuring out what it is rather than following the hints Pleo gave them. I don't think they're "seeing" in the moment that following the hints will lead them to a win
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 6, 2013 8:46:21 GMT -8
I think the issue is that since Christians do not know what their wincon is, they're focusing on figuring out what it is rather than following the hints Pleo gave them. I don't think they're "seeing" in the moment that following the hints will lead them to a win This exemplified by players saying that the third hint (about Cardinal Sin) is not advice on winning the game.
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Post by polluxoil on Mar 6, 2013 8:53:44 GMT -8
Ugh, I just realized that since Colby is voting for texcat, he's going to sin which means he can't kill Idle tonight, so they're going to be forced to lynch Idle tomorrow and waste another Day.
Idle's really screwed this up. I think we're going to be forced to block patricia's kill toNight, because we can't afford to let the Devils keep getting two kills a Night when Town is going to be off the reservation for the next Day thanks to Idle.
Of course, it depends on who she attacks and whether she gets their Cardinal Sin right. And also how the Town protections shake out.
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Post by lauriern on Mar 6, 2013 13:45:43 GMT -8
I'm here, but it doesn't look like there's anything for me to do........ Welcome Texcat
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Post by polluxoil on Mar 6, 2013 14:07:41 GMT -8
Hmmmm.
Question for Pleonast:
If I'm reading Moley's powers correctly, if he uses Level D on Killing Roles tonight, it wouldn't affect either of the Devil kills, correct? Because it reads to me like only the Christian killing roles will be redirected, and Colby won't be killing tonight.
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 6, 2013 14:26:10 GMT -8
Hmmmm. Question for Pleonast: If I'm reading Moley's powers correctly, if he uses Level D on Killing Roles tonight, it wouldn't affect either of the Devil kills, correct? Because it reads to me like only the Christian killing roles will be redirected, and Colby won't be killing tonight. It would not. And the Penitent is peniting.
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Post by texcat on Mar 6, 2013 15:07:31 GMT -8
I'm here, but it doesn't look like there's anything for me to do........ Welcome Texcat Thanks! A lot to catch up on here. And damn that Guiri. I let him talk me out of thinking that he was a Devil by proving his power. And damn that Idle. I just read his "plan". Ugh.
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Post by polluxoil on Mar 6, 2013 16:22:25 GMT -8
Idle's plan was selfish and terrible. He essentially gave everybody who wasn't him an extra two sins in the form of an unneeded sacrifice that doesn't help the Town with their win condition at all. At best it's a hindrance to the Devils with one win condition.
This is, essentially, why Town is supposed to play as a team and unit and why a single Town person making executive decisions is almost unilaterally always bad for Town. Idle's move may have cost Town the game if they can't recover from it.
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Post by polluxoil on Mar 6, 2013 16:34:07 GMT -8
It also looks like the Devils may try and play smarter with their kills this time around and not give it away.
Silver Jan and Hockey Monkey are protected by Lust, so we don't need to worry about protecting either of them toNight. Even so, they have Jan's CS wrong right now so she can be allowed to die if we need to. But we don't tonight.
They do have Suburban and Wombat's Sins right, so we may have to protect one of them. I'd suggest protecting whoever patricia targets, so they don't get an extra Nightkill again.
We'll have to see who Hockey Monkey and dizzy choose to protect, as well as what wombat does, though. If protections are done right, we may not need to use a Guardian Angel power. The worst thing, though, is for patricia to get another soul and give the Devils a double Nightkill for a third Night in a row.
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Post by texcat on Mar 6, 2013 18:58:45 GMT -8
I am trying to get caught up. Do the scum have another place to talk that we can't see? Do we know who is who in hell and purgatory? Everyone is posting with a devil name.
And OMG Moley shook hands with the Devil? And gave his CS away all in one fell blow?! And now is keeping it a secret from town who might have lynched Chucara toDay anyway.
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Post by lightfoot on Mar 6, 2013 21:31:59 GMT -8
before noon tomorrow PST the decision must be made- pollox and I can't angel anyone else so try to be around if we need to angel someone
tex read the game state thread in here- and we do have full access to Hell = the Scum board
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Post by lauriern on Mar 7, 2013 4:58:27 GMT -8
Barring any unexpected issues with patients today, I should be here by 10:30 - 11 PST. *fingers crossed*
Looks like Scum haven't completely decided yet, so no contingent orders for now.......
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Post by texcat on Mar 7, 2013 6:07:55 GMT -8
I see on the game state board that Patricia is targeting SilverJan with Envy. That means that SilverJan does not need protecting, right? I'll check back later to see what CIAS is doing.
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Post by polluxoil on Mar 7, 2013 9:47:01 GMT -8
Since Cat chose Pride, he seems to be unblockable.
Pleo, does Pride's unblockable power go through Lust's protect or the Guardian Angel protect?
Wombat is blocking patricia, and Silver Jan is protected by Lust even without that so we don't have to worry about patricia tonight. Cat is targeting one of the Masons. If he's targeting Hockey Monkey, he may end up losing the kill anyway, depending on if Pride also goes through protects.
The issue here is we're making a 50% guess. It's likely they're targeting Hockey Monkey since that's who they've targeted before, but at the same time that means he could choose dizzy for that very reason.
Considering Cat's power is to double the lynch if he claims a soul, in addition to protecting Devils from the lynch, and it's likely the Town is going to be wasting their lynch on Idle anyway and not going after a Devil in the first place, it may be in our best interests to save the Guardian Angel powers we have for another Night when we know exactly who the scum are targeting and don't have to guess. Also, this way it's likely guiri and Chucara will start making the kills instead of Cat, so we don't have to worry about the lynch power being used again unless Cat claims a soul in Purgatory.
It's up to you guys, I likely won't be around for EOD so it's your call.
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Post by lauriern on Mar 7, 2013 10:39:39 GMT -8
Pleo,
If I GA Wombat (since CIAS is going after her and guessing her CS) will I stop CIAS' kill?? (It says he's protecting himself, so I'm not sure!!)
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Post by texcat on Mar 7, 2013 10:40:58 GMT -8
It looks like CIAS is going after Wombat. I am going to send in a protect for her, conditional on it going through CIAS's Pride power. I do that on the Idle board, right?
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Post by lauriern on Mar 7, 2013 10:46:13 GMT -8
Also, SilverJan is protected, correct??
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Post by texcat on Mar 7, 2013 10:48:35 GMT -8
SilverJan is protected about 3 different ways. By lust, by Patricia being blocked, and by the devils making the wrong guess on her.
Wait. The kill only goes through if they guess the CSin correctly? Is that right?
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Post by lauriern on Mar 7, 2013 10:51:25 GMT -8
I believe so......I have been mixing a lot of things up though - so many details!!
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 7, 2013 10:54:55 GMT -8
Pleo, does Pride's unblockable power go through Lust's protect or the Guardian Angel protect? Lust is a protection on the target, while Pride prevents the killer from being blocked or redirected. So silverjan will not be killed. The Guardian Angel power cannot be overcome by Devils at all.
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